The last few years have been a busy time for Brad Listi. You probably know him as the host of the podcast Otherppl With Brad Listior as the author of the novel Be Brief and Tell Them Everything, which was praised by the likes of Chelsea Hodson and Sam Lipsyte. Next up for Listi? DeepDive, an app dedicated to online writing courses; the class “How to Write a Novel” includes instruction from authors like Emily St. John Mandel, Stephen Graham Jones, and Melissa Broder. (It’s currently available for both iPhone and Android.) I caught up with Listi to ask him more about how this new venture came about, who else is involved, and what’s next for Otherppl.
When did you begin thinking about creating DeepDive?
It’s been on my mind for a long time, but I really started to focus on it in earnest a couple of years ago.
Is there a connection between the courses you’re holding through DeepDive and your podcast?
Definitely. I’ve been hosting Otherppl for nearly 15 years and have had hundreds of great conversations about writing during that time. I’m well-practiced at audio production, and I’ve gotten to know a lot of contemporary authors through the years, several dozen of whom are instructors in “How to Write a Novel” (DeepDive’s debut course), including people like Emily St. John Mandel, Vauhini Vara, Melissa Broder, Steve Almond, V. V. Ganeshananthan, Stephen Graham Jones, Antoine Wilson, Gina Frangello, Porochista Khakpour, Tiffany Clarke Harrison, Deb Olin Unferth, Tod Goldberg, Matt Bell, Lynn Steger Strong, Juliet Escoria, Matthew Salesses, Hannah Pittard, Madelaine Lucas, Maya Binyam, and many others. It’s an all-star line-up. The course unfolds as a series of dialogues. I’m the host. The idea is to combine academic rigor with the conversational vitality of a great podcast.
All of which is to say that building DeepDive has felt like a natural progression. I’ve been able to take what I’ve learned from Otherppl and sharpen the focus while also going much deeper into the subject matter. “How to Write a Novel” features more than 50 hours of never-before-heard material. It’s intentionally maximalist in its approach. I wanted to create a course about fiction writing that is commensurate with the scale of the task at hand. Writing a novel is a big project. It’s hard to do. I wanted our course to honor the difficulty and complexity of the undertaking. I also wanted to create a course that can accompany writers over the long haul, serving as a kind of wingman, providing insight and inspiration as they work to finish their books.
How do you see DeepDive as differing from other online writing courses?
I think the size of the course is a primary differentiating factor, as is the level of access to first-rate contemporary authors—bestsellers, award-winners, true masters of their craft. I could always be missing something, but in my survey of the market, I haven’t seen any writing courses that match DeepDive’s breadth or depth—most courses out there are 4 to 6 hours in length, which, in my view, is too short. And they tend to feature one or two instructors, tops. By contrast, DeepDive delivers access to the minds and work habits and experiences of more than three dozen of today’s finest working writers. It’s a really incredible body of knowledge, and I like to think it’s fun to listen to. I really want our courses to be immersive and alive and human and entertaining in the manner of a great podcast or great radio. That’s the aim. Most educational content is boring. It doesn’t have to be.
I also wanted to create a course that’s easy for people to fit into their busy lives. DeepDive courses can be streamed online or, better yet, via the DeepDive app (iOS + Android). You don’t have to be tethered to your desk. It’s something you can do while you’re on the subway or walking the dog.
What can prospective course enrollees expect?
They can expect a rich and meaningful learning experience and a great diversity of expert perspectives. They can expect to be challenged and inspired and entertained. But obviously, in the end, a writer has to do the work. Nobody can do it for you. DeepDive courses are not for people who are interested in formulaic approaches or quick fixes.
Are you planning to keep recording new episodes of Otherppl with Brad Listi as well?
Yes. I have no plans to stop. I love doing the show. It’s a privilege and an addiction.
Between this, the podcast, and the release of the novel Be Brief and Tell Them Everything, it seems like you’ve been busy — how have you balanced everything?
Very, very poorly.
Photo: Dove Shore